Horsemen, or Musketeers?

Four Horsemen are going to ride into Washington on April 21st to appear before a congressional committee at the behest of Rep. Henry Waxman, chairman of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce. These Horseman go by four names: Righteousness, Conquest, Famine and Death. Or, in other words: Caterpillar, AT&T, John Deere, and Verizon.

Just what are they accused of? Basically, sharing with the public one of the major hidden costs of the Obama administration’s health care reform plan, now law, specifically the impact of the bill on the profitability of American businesses. It seems that they have announced a major hit to their bottom line because, as noted in a piece at InvestmentWatch, they “can no longer deduct from their taxes the subsidies paid by the federal government for retiree drug benefits.”

More simply stated: When the prescription drug benefit was passed, the Bush administration was concerned that major companies would encourage their retirees to move to Medicare to take advantage of the new benefit, thereby dramatically increasing the costs of Medicare. To significantly minimize this potential, the government provided these companies with subsidies to help cover the cost of retiree prescription drug plans. Since those subsidies were going directly to the retiree plans, they were tax exempt. In other words, these companies didn’t have to treat these subsidies as income. Well, under ObamaCare, these subsidies now have to be treated as additional income and are therefore taxed as such, resulting in billions in additional taxes.

It would appear that the Obama administration isn’t concerned with increasing costs to Medicare — not at all surprising, considering that Barack Obama’s ultimate goal is the eventual implementation of a national single-payer health care system.

Back to the point at hand.  For companies with a large number of retirees, the loss of these subsidies will have a significant impact on profitability, which according to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act (Section 409) passed by Congress on July 25, 2002 must be reported to investors and potential investors (the public). For global companies, this is essentially the world.

According to the Act, companies are required “to disclose to the public, on an urgent basis, information on material changes in their financial condition or operations,” disclosures which are to be presented in terms that are easy to understand.  In other words, Section 409 clearly states that “material changes to their financial condition” are to be presented “on an urgent basis” and in “real time.”

With this kind of transparency, why is Rep. Waxman calling these Four Horsemen to appear before the committee? The administration’s problem is that this disclosure exposes the lie which is the root of so much of their health care-related rhetoric — that the new law is paid for and that it will not cost the taxpayers any money. In reality, though, when corporations receive a major hit to their bottom line, millions of stockholders (taxpayers) are affected, essentially receiving a hidden tax increase, and that increase trickles down to the public at large as the potential of higher prices needed to cover these additional expenses.

Just why Caterpillar, AT&T, John Deere, and Verizon were chosen to appear is a mystery. Many other companies have announced first quarter “writedowns” because of the passing of ObamaCare, including Boeing, AK Steel, 3M, and Valero Energy. There is no doubt that ObamaCare is causing a problem for these companies and, obviously, because of the demand to appear before Congress this is an unintended consequence to the bill. What other unintended consequences are in our future? What other “lies” about this bill will be discovered as the weeks and months and years pass?

Maybe I’m wrong, maybe these four companies don’t represent the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Maybe, just maybe, they represent the Four Musketeers–Athos, Portos, Aramis, and d’Artagnan–riding to Washington to save the day, educate the elite in Congress (those that don’t know they don’t know, but think they know more than anyone else). We need the men who are representing these companies to ride to our defense, to carry our standard, to let Congress and American citizens know that we will no longer be treated as serfs whose ideas, beliefs, and commitments don’t matter. That we will no longer allow our laws and ideals to be trampled on and changed to meet the whims of those in power.

In addition, they have a legal and moral obligation to protect their investors. Those that have bowed down and kissed the ring of the Obama Administration have not fared too well. Look what happened to the stock and bondholders of General Motors and Chrysler, or just look at what’s happening to the banking industry … while the administration completely ignores the government’s role in the current financial crisis.

We can hope that these four won’t be cowed by the power of those in Congress, but instead will stand tall and speak truth to that power. There is precedent for this.

On August 6, 1947, Howard Hughes appeared before the Senate War Investigating Committee and essentially destroyed the reputation of the Republican senator from Maine, Owen Brewster. The senator had targeted Hughes as a favor to his friend and financial contributor, Juan Trippe, president of Pan-American Airways, a fierce competitor of Hughes-owned Trans World Airlines.

Hughes came prepared with the facts, not only the facts regarding his use of government funds during the war but also facts which shed light on how the rest of the industry fared and showed that his purported misuse of those funds was, in fact, not as significant as other airplane manufacturers that were not under investigation. He also didn’t hesitate to clearly state, for the record, Brewster’s relationship with Trippe and, his own opinion that the investigation had more to do with assuring Pan Am had exclusive rights to fly people and freight across the Atlantic than it did to Hughes’ “misuse” of government funds.

Do our current Musketeers have the courage to speak truth to power as Hughes did?

Well, Hughes was a fearless entrepreneur, a man with a vision who would not allow anything or anybody to stop that vision from becoming reality. When he appeared before Brewster’s committee he had the facts to support his views, and he wasn’t afraid to use those facts. He saw Congress for what it was: a group of men who were more interested in their agendas than in what was best for the American People. Here’s how the congressional hearing was portrayed in The Aviator, the 2004 film directed by Martin Scorsese and starring Leonardo DiCaprio as Hughes:

Well, how about our Four Musketeers? Do they have the courage to do the same? To be fair, the situation is somewhat different. None of these men are entrepreneurs, but instead are businessmen with a responsibility to their companies, investors, and the public at large. How they interpret this responsibility will make all the difference. Will they fear a public backlash should they challenge Congress? Will they fear a loss of government contracts should they speak the truth? Will they reconsider their positions, based on the Obama administration’s oft-demonstrated ability to circumvent current laws and governmental policies (as it did regarding the bankruptcies of GM and Chrysler)?

This is the first test of the viability of ObamaCare. These companies, through their own representatives, have the opportunity to show the American people that there are major problems with this bill, problems that will prove the truth of its unacceptability to the majority of American voters. One of two things will undoubtedly happen — either the CEOs will come out swinging and this will be the first challenge to the false promises of the Obama Administration regarding health care reform, or it will be another instance in which the righteous swallow their pride, bow, and kiss the ring of power.

What will transpire, nobody knows.  But in case you want to support a choice of the path of righteousness, here is the contact information for the four companies’ executive offices:

  • Caterpillar: 100 North East Adams Street, Peoria, Illinois USA 61629; (309) 675-1000
  • AT&T: 208 S. Akard St. Dallas, Texas USA 75202; (210) 821-4105
  • John Deere: One John Deere Place, Moline, Illinois 61265; (309) 765-8000
  • Verizon: 140 West St. New York, NY 10007; (212) 395-1000

Horseman, or Musketeers — you make the call.



  1. Four score on seven days ago says:

    Caterpillar: Shovel it right back at em!
    John Deere: Don’t run like a deer. stare down their socialist headlights!
    Verizon: Can you hear us now!
    AT&T: Thank you for abusing AT&T!

  2. 2,400 pages of unexplained says:

    “The same prudence which in private life would forbid our paying our own money for unexplained projects, forbids it in the dispensation of the public moneys.”

    - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Shelton Gilliam, 1808

  3. William A. Rose says:

    This Health Care Law will not go away. It will not be repealed. Obama wanted it and he was willing to get it done by hook or by crook. And we saw it played out just that way!

    He promised change, and we are gonna get it.

  4. The DEMS lied with their rhetoric and now they have backed themselves into a corner. Even if the CEOs are spineless and bow now, when the law kicks in, the losses will be real. The losses now are only estimated, and the real numbers will most likely be higher. No doubt the government lynch mob would come out swinging, attacking these companies for their lack of transparency. the truth will come out. The only question is will it be now before the damage occurs, or after when it is too late and we can’t recover from it.

  5. Anonymous says:

    Obama does NOT like when things come to light…..
    I could name a few, but I digress.

  6. John Buyon says:

    “these four companies represent the Four Musketeers riding to Washington to save the day”

    wow the brainwashing of america has been officially completed. when a grown adult trusts 4 multinational corporations more than the elected government.

    you have to stand in awe and admire the conservative think thanks for having the foresight in the 1970′s to start this propaganda campaign.

  7. sharon says:

    I will be quick…. I have worked in the mortgage industry for many years. When congress under Frank and Dodd managed to change the regulations… we saw a serious problem. The American people have been led to believe, and most still believe today it was the fault of the shady dirty lenders, and not the government. I might add that in 2007, and 2008, most of the unemployed were mortgage workers from all sides of the spectrum. The media never really mentioned this….. My point in all of this is that I was absolutely sure the lenders and the banks would fight back……. they never did….why would they not fight back? These companies on behalf of the American people and their employees should tell congress to take a flying leap.

    The companies for whatever reason have been caving to this government. So went the mortgage industry, so goes the rest of just about every company out there… Nothing we can do at all, if they are not willing to fight.

    Great read by the way Brad.. good article.

  8. JAN says:

    More backroom or cornhusker deals on the horizen to hush these four?

  9. John Buyoff says:

    I smell communism around 8:53 or so.

  10. Gail B. says:

    Oh, did I ever get the run-around from ATT! I ended up with Shareholder Services. (I’m not through yet, though.) Sooo, I checked on my ATT shares and my account and found that they have turned over to the State of North Carolina a number of my shares and have some dividend checks for me. A very nice lady sent me the claim form; and, thanks to Brad Fregger, I will be getting my shares back and a few checks in the mail!

    Now back to getting through to Corporate Offices!

  11. Sam says:


    ain’t capitalism GREAT!!!!!!

  12. Randy Wills says:

    I was just wondering “John”, how you arrived at your enlightened perspective on politics and economics. Would you be willing to share a little of your background with all of the unwashed who happen to stumble upon AmreicasRight?

    For an example, what led you to believe that the government is more trustworthy than “multi-nationals”? The term “multi-nationals” is typically used as a pejorative by Ward Churchill-type-trained social activists who have never been employed gainfully in the competitive world economy and know nothing of what really transpires therein. In other words, those who rant against “multi-nationals” are typically losers who need to blame someone else for their failure to achieve anything of substance.

    So, what is your background, and how did you become a Canadian/American?

    Just wondering so that I can relate better to you.



    P.S. When you asked me “What Marxists?”, you know that you admitted that you haven’t even read Obama’s own accounts of his background, never heard of Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright or many of his czars. When I say do a search, I’m not asking you to resort to biased perspectives. Just use Internet sources such as Wikipedia and type in the names of 20-30 persons who have been, or are currently, influential in Obama’s life and see what you come up with.

    I’m determined to get you out of that dark shell you live in and join me out in the sunlight of facts and truth.

  13. Anonymous says:

    Whew, John isn’t natural born. I will sleep better now.

  14. John Buyon says:

    lol john isn’t natural born funny…
    once again birthers :)
    don’t worry I am too young to be American President.

    @ Sharon: you are absolutely 100% right the government did tamper with the market for loans, it did set rates too low it did encourage easy credit and cheap money…
    however the problem with the 2008 financial crash was not only a crash in property prices, which was temporary and necessary to pop the bubble. The reason it became a systemic risk to the entire economy was because of the shady mortgage packages sold in unscrupulous unregulated manner by the financial titans that made a simple property crash into a world recession.
    the above is extremely distilled and simplified and incomplete I can expand if you wish of me.

    @ Randy, I appreciate the time you take to argue with me,
    I have no agenda, favor the democratic party over the republicans, not out of ideological convictions but primarily on the basis that the republican party is hostile to intellectuals, minorities, cultural Liberals, as well as the poor in society. what really set me off was this video which sums my position pretty neatly :

    I don’t understand how the republicans can even take themselves seriously

    this is how I see it democrats: pussy’s who cant take a stand on popular issues, cant articulate a defense of Liberal ideas, are until recently more corrupt, relatively bad economics, and sometimes a hotbed of goofy short sighted left wing ideas.

    Republicans: a very frightening alliance between christian fundamentalists, Corporate Oligarchs, reactionary elements in society, based upon identity politics appealing to the boorish segment of this country locked and loaded with ideas that have outlived their usefulness.

    it is mainly out of fear that my dislike of the Republicans comes from.

    Democrats worry me, Republicans frighten me.

    I come on to this site to see if I am wrong, to test some of my ideas and see whether they stand scrutiny, to see how conservatives behave, see if your side has legitimate ideas. to break up the concept of cyber-balkanization

  15. Randy Wills says:

    Good, John. That’s why you should be looking at this site, but I can tell that you’re afraid because anger and fear are just two sides of the same coin.

    And my guess is that there are a lot of things that we would agree on as being problems in our society. Where we would disagree would most likely be in how those problems are best solved. I say that they can only be changed by changing the hearts of men. Without that change, government becomes just as complicit as any corporation or individual in subjecting citizens to rules that enhance one group at the expense of the other.

    I’m not an ideolog. I’m currently reading Judge Andrew Napolitano’s book “Lies The Government Told You”, and the Judge brings out the fallicy of looking to the government to solve problems – particularly in the area of social justice. If it would make you feel better, he also castigates the Supreme Court for interjecting themselves in the decision of Bush vs Gore in 2000. You might find it an interesting read.



  16. Anonymous says:

    Not a birther, a comedian, and you are so fun to laugh at.

  17. Dr Kildare says:

    There you have it, the Constitution has outlived it’s usefulness,

    John, obviously too young to be president.

    He could use a Prozac it appears…. he hates EVERYBODY.

  18. Brad Fregger says:


    The “war” isn’t between Democrats and Republicans (that’s so “yesterday”), it’s between conservatives and progressives. A close look will find that there are both in both parties.

    The objective of the “war” is to convince the true independent which one to align with.

    An additional object of the conservative Republican is to get the progressive Republican out of the party.

    Finally, “… republican party is hostile to intellectuals, minorities, cultural Liberals, as well as the poor in society.”

    In so many ways it is the conservative that seeks out the truth of issues, supports the potential of minorities and the poor in society. It is the progressive that is striving to keeping these people “in thier place.” I wrote an earlier article explaining how this works … you might want to give it a read.

    I’m not hostile to cultural liberals … I just feel sorry for them, and want to do everything possible to make sure that their mistaken views don’t get passed on to the next generation.

  19. Anonymous says:

    Brad v John
    advantage Brad

  20. Sheep to the slaughter says:

    Actually Brad, take it a step further. It’s between those who HAVE A CLUE, and those WHO DON’T. Ignorance can be very fatal. Many parents, schools, universities and yes, churches, have fostered this demise.

  21. This family tree no tree of liberty says:

    Barack Obama Sr. (Dad)

    *Communist who saw nothing wrong with government ‘taxing 100%’ so long as the people got benefits…
    *Harvard educated economist
    *Nairobi bureaucrat who advised government to ‘redistribute’ income through higher taxes
    *Demonized corporations
    *Abandoned Barack Obama Jr. when he was 2 years old to continue at Harvard (teaching son that ideology is more important than family)

    Stanley Ann Dunham (Mom)

    *Communist sympathizer
    *Practiced ‘critical theory’ (aka Marxism)
    *Influenced by Nietzsche and Freud
    *Left Hawaii for Indonesia, Pakistan
    *Attended a leftist church nicknamed the ‘little red church’ because of its Communist sympathies
    *Left Barack Obama Jr.


    *Barack’s grandparents introduced Barack Obama Jr. to poet and communist Frank Marshall Davis
    *Davis becomes a mentor as young Barack struggled with abandonment by parents

    College & Church

    *Admittedly sought out ‘Marxist’ professors
    *Admittedly attended ‘socialist conferences’
    *Began attending a Marxist church – led by pastor Jeremiah Wright (attended for 20 years)


    *Tragedy of the Warren Court: No redistributive change
    *Voted for TARP
    *$787 billion stimulus redistribution bill
    *Healthcare bill admittedly about ‘redistributing the wealth’
    *Single Payer Healthcare proponent
    *President Obama now also President of GM & Chrysler
    *President Obama seizes control of insurance giant AIG
    *President Obama is leading America to single payer healthcare
    *President Obama seized control of Student Loan industry in order to ‘cut out middle man’
    *President Obama seizes control in massive land grabs
    *Repeatedly vilifies ‘the rich’
    *Obama believes race problems can be solved through redistribution of wealth… he said “race is still an enormous factor in our society. But economics can overcome a lot of racial division.”
    *Trying to regulate the Internet via FCC
    *Forces mortgage co’s to cover people who aren’t paying mortgage
    *Extends unemployment benefits to 99 weeks
    *Told Joe the plumber ‘it’s better when you spread things around’

    Family, Friends, Advisors & Administration

    *Wife Michelle Obama said “The truth is, in order to get things like universal health care and a revamped education system, then someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more.”
    *Jim Wallis, Obama’s spiritual advisor & forced redistribution of wealth advocate
    *Van Jones, disgraced Green Jobs Czar & Communist
    *Ron Bloom, Manufacturing Czar & anti-free market
    *John Holdren, pro-redistribution of wealth
    *Andy Stern, SEIU President & redistribution of wealth fan
    *Anita Dunn, fan of Chairman Mao
    *Mark Lloyd, FCC ‘Diversity Czar’
    *Carol Browner, socialist
    *Robert Creamer, socialist

  22. John Buyon says:

    @ Kildare : when I said “ideas that have outlived their usefulness” i meant things like imperial wars, Reagenism, crusade against government, corporate welfare, and climate change denial, not the constitution.

    @ Brad : I dont understand how people both on the left and the right say it is “not about republican and democrat” I frankly believe it is.

    one more thing what is your definition of a
    I would consider myself a progressive in the United states, but a moderate in Canada, and a conservative in Europe…

    @anonymous: “Brad v John
    advantage Brad”

    I dont know what you think your accomplishing here?
    I am on a right wing website, obviously my views are unpopular here, your views wouldn’t get standing ovation in the liberal blogs either.

  23. SenatorMark4 says:

    I have to admit that I’m pretty depressed about all this. A friend who is a high salaried personal banker at Wells Fargo told me that they were basically threatened into taking the $25 billion, even though they were stable, because it was implied that a snow storm of IRS paper was coming their way if they turned it down. My argument was if their business was so brittle that an investigation would lead them to lose their license then they weren’t protecting the shareholders at all. Giving in to the government was then the final, complete surrender of the shareholders by management. We may be doomed if we expect the managers to support the rights of The People.

  24. Brad Fregger says:


    Don’t take it so personally. Compared to the attacks on conservatives on left-wing websites anonymous’ comment was very tame. Really just voicing his opinion. Also, you’re not the only “progressive” that visits here, we really relish the debate and know that other views exist … whether or not we agree with them.

    Here are a couple of short and simple definitions. I’m sure you’re aware that there would be a lot of disagreement as to specific definitions, even within the progressive and conservative movements.

    Progressives: Believe that governments are the solution and the more power government has, especially over the private sector, the better.

    Conservatives: Believe that governments are the problem and that while they have a limited role to play, the less power they have over the private sector, the better.

    Progressives believe that people need to be taken care of and that only governments can do this effectively.

    Conservatives believe that, while there are those that need to be taken care of, the vast majority are better off taking care of themselves; and the private sector is better than government at take care of those in need.

    Again, you are welcome here. We enjoy the debate. Although, it is rare that I take part. After all, I had my say in the article.

  25. Anonymous says:

    9:34, accomplishing more than you are, but that isn’t saying much.
    I just like giving shout outs to the intelligent commenters when they take on idiocy.

  26. John Buyon says:

    @ anonymous : I am sure that a man of Brad’s stature doesn’t need to be reassured by an anonymous commentator.

    @ SenatorMark4 : Banks got pressured to take free government money? sounds unlikely …
    but would you like to prove it?
    if you are right than that seems very sinister by the government.

    @ Brad : By your definition I would be a conservative,I don’t want an uncontrollable, unresponsive centralized government.
    but the problem with conservatism is that it doesn’t offer solutions, it just criticizes the Liberals, and the social democrats.

    for example what would conservatives do to fix the health care system? poverty? war? climate change?
    open question for anyone to answer…
    ( and I swear to God if you say that there is nothing wrong with the american healthcare system you are just an idiot )

  27. Jeff Schreiber says:


    Is that enough for you? Or would you like me to find Hank Paulson and ask him?

    And as for your criticism about conservatism and solutions, obviously you have not been reading. The GOP proposed a 256-page health care reform bill which, according to the CBO, would have cost $61 BILLION over ten years and WOULD HAVE BROUGHT DOWN PREMIUMS. The bill was based on actual solutions: interstate competition, risk pools and tort reform. The Democrats’ bill was 2700 pages long, will AT LEAST cost $1.2 TRILLION over ten years, and has been widely acknowledged as something which will INCREASE PREMIUMS.

    I’m tired of people who do not do their homework and yet criticize a group or a party wrongly BECAUSE they do not do their homework. Come on, John … you’re better than that. At America’s Right alone, you’ll find solutions for energy, poverty … everything. You need to expand your horizons, my friend, and in the meantime I’ll do my best to convey those solutions.

    Now, if only I could find ten friggin’ minutes to actually put something new up at the site — the last two days have been terrible.

  28. Gail B. says:

    “John,” lesson number one: Don’t be criticizing/mocking America’s writers and readers’ comments unless you want Jeff to come back “fully armed” with backup information.

    Lesson number two: Try watching Glenn Beck a few afternoons (or 2:00 a.m.’s rerun) for clear explanations of what’s going on and of the difference between a Democrat and a Progressive.

    Lesson number three: Print yourself a copy of the United States Constitution and read it a couple of times a week.

    Lesson number four: There are 85 Federalist Papers. Just do a search, copy and paste ten essays at a time to a Word document (plus the table of contents as a separate document) and save them for enlightening reading. I promise they won’t put you to sleep like Jeff’s case books will.

    See, when you make such accusations as you did about Republicans and conservatives, they stand out like dog mess on a kitchen floor.

    Conservatives want the revenue going to the federal government to be spent wisely and within the guidelines of the Constitution. There’s just something wrong with giving money to Pelosi’s RATS when people cannot find employment because of this regime’s agenda, which is dedicated to bankrupting this nation! The Progressives illegally bought votes with taxpayer dollars for a healthcare bill that taxpayers do NOT WANT!

    When the President of the United States cannot look the American people in the eye (but has to read from a teleprompter because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about) and tell us the TRUTH, there’s something wrong there, too. He has flip-flopped on everything he has said, from the get-go! Why do you think Senator Joe Wilson called out, “You LIE!” and Justice Alito shook his head and said, “That’s not true.”? Use your head, “John.”

    I don’t mean to sound harsh; I simply “state my business” as I was brought up to do.

  29. USA USA USA says:

    Gail v Canadian
    advantage Gail

  30. Dan-In-PA says:

    Glen Beck is a complete and total fraud, Gail. His entire schtick is just that. A schtick, a farce, a lie. FOX is an entertainment company, period.

    If you REALLY wanted to know what your country’s been doing you’d read the following:

    Calculated Risk – Mortgage oriented financial reporting.
    Chris Floyd – International Journalist for 40 years. Old school conservative.
    Juan Cole – International journalist, middle east specialist.
    emptywheel – Legal investigators
    Greg Palast – Economics forensic investigator – he uncovered the Enron Fraud.
    Sibel Edmonds – FBI translator and now whistle blower gagged by her own government for speaking out. (Her story will scare the crap out of you)

    That’s just a sample. But in all sites referred to, you will find links to official government documents and clear and concise reporting.

    Most of the argument between progressives and our conservative brethren come down to 3 main sticking points:

    1) Trust in Government
    Progressives do want the feds to take a stance on some things (not all) but do not trust the feds due to corporate influence.
    a) the war on drugs is a waste of taxpayer resources and is used to destroy lives
    b) American pursuit of empire will destroy America, end DoD’s offensive posture
    c) rational regulation of commerce. An end to the Boom/Bust cycles that have dominated the American economic landscape for the last 4 decades.
    d) Accountability for our elected representatives, none of the enablers of this most recent financial crisis, in government or private sector will pay any price, because private sector “lobbied” government to make every single step they took along the way to legalize their actions.

    2) Separation of Church and State. Truly, we have never been a Christian nation, we have been a nation with a secular government populated mostly by Christians.

    3) Trickle Down Economics doesn’t work, it’s never worked and it’s been bastardized by corporate influence at grave expense of the middle class and poor. It needs to be undone.

    We’re not idiots, we don’t hate this country, and we are certainly NOT a cancer as someone would have you believe. I am a NAVY veteran with Persian Gulf experience. I voted for Reagan twice, I pay taxes, I pay my bills, and I (and many 10′s of millions like me) believe the country is drifting way, way, off course.

    And I’ve invited you, Brad, to come back to the BradBlog for additional discussions on ACORN (an honorable organization that’s been persecuted for decades because they empower the poor) In fact, you are all welcome at BradBlog as long as civility and accuracy can be maintained. He has a wealth of documentation that should be examined.

  31. I see what I see says:

    How can Glenn be a fraud when he is showing VIDEOTAPES of these communist scoundrels self avowing their intentions? GET REAL.

  32. Up is Down says:

    Trickle up doesn’t work either. It’s all spent on crack and malt liquor.

  33. John Buyon says:

    finally, thank you DPA Dan
    a man who defends liberalism in this bastion of conservatism.

    the whole BIG GOVERNMENT IS EVIL thing is bunk

    this is how I see it Government is not necessarily evil, especially not if it is elected, restrained by a constitution, subject to judicial review, overseen by citizen groups.
    and by far, BY FAR it is a much more honorable institution than a corporation, which is not elected, enjoys all the rights of a person, yet never dies and has billions of $$$’s, NOT SUBJECT TO human emotions of love and empathy, motivated by 1 thing only Profit, much more shadowy than a government.

    for example: imagine 2 scenario’s
    private Multinational corporation in charge of providing water to a municipality, it is a sophisticated operation with state of the art filtering, collecting, sewer etc… facilities. All is good
    but one day something goes wrong, lets say due to wear and tear on the filtering facilities ( that goes unfixed because it would damage the profit margins) water becomes contaminated, thousands get sick in the city. The company is sued, but since it is super wealthy it can afford high class lawyers to get them out of paying large restitution, its license to produce water in the city is revoked, but who is responsible? who can be sent to jail for poisoning the cityfolk? NO one Limited Liability !
    the Company doesn’t really care though, because the profit margins in that town were beginning to fall, and being a multinational corporation, its stock price barely dips as its business is not adversely affected.

    #2 public utility, subject to constant review, as it is public and not private property, wear and tear would be re fixed, because it doesn’t really matter that $$$ is being spent it comes out of the public purse.
    BUT lets say government is inept, and we all know that it sometimes is.
    blah blah blah water is contaminated and such. the head of the public utility would be grilled, as would the underlings, people would be fired due to negligence. and the public company employees would tread far more carefully as their livelihood is on the line.

    conclusion it is important to keep the important industries either nationalized, or under extraordinary public review.

  34. Randy Wills says:

    To “Dan-in-PA”:

    Just one question; what specific item or issue has Glenn Beck deviated from the truth and/or the facts?

    I watch him with a critical eye, and yes, he’s a showman, but I’ve yet to discover any lack of integrity or failure to base his opinions documented information. If you’ve been able to detect any substantive errors or fraud, please let me know so that, with a little help from my computer, I can track it down. My time is too valuable to waste it watching a fraud.

    Thanks, Randy

  35. Dan-In-PA says:

    FEMA Prison camps for dissenters. Big effin lie which he was forced to retract.
    Obama is NOT a communist, he’s NOT a Marxist, he’s NOT a socialist (another Beck lie). In fact, he’s very much a centrist and is doing everything in his power to ignore the base that elected him, the progressive wing. Pretty close to 6 out of 10 Americans who voted, voted for this change. And a LOT of the rhetoric really is of the “sour grapes” variety and sounds an awful lot like the same kind of rhetoric used to discredit Bill Clinton.

    UpisDown said “crack and malt liquor” and doesn’t even realize how repugnant his humor is. Trickle up is your assertion, not mine. A level playing field would be appropriate, where the rules of the economic road are not defined by the very entities that have the most to gain, I hate the current campaign finance system we have, it not only encourages corruption, it guarantees it.

  36. Dan-In-PA says:
  37. Communism sucks says:

    Hey, to our resident Canadian, move to Venezuela.

  38. Anonymous says:
  39. Randy Wills says:

    To “Dan-in-PA”:

    No, no, no, Dan.

    Don’t send me to a bunch of blog sites such as the Huffington Post. I’m talking about YOU. I asked if YOU had any evidence that Beck is a fraud or if he has presented fraudulent material. I’m tired of persons who condemn others based on what “others” have said, so I don’t buy your rebuttal. I watch Beck and I research what he presents, and, although I have heard him misspeak himself, as all extemporaneous speakers do (hint; Biden, Obama, Pelosi, etc,etc), but his history is sound.

    As for Obama being a Marxist, if you know of someone who has only friends, associates, mentors, teachers, pastors (who have I left out?) who, by their own words and FBI records are leftists, communists, Marxists, Socialists, radicals, anarchists, and yet is not one of them, please tell me. I’ll ask you the same question that I asked another commentor; “Name one person in Obama’s history – his own actual history – who you would classify as a person of traditional American values based on Judeo/Christian priciples”. If you can, you’re doing better than I have been able to do.

    I say that the record is indisputable; Obama IS a Marxist as far as his guiding political principles are concerned. Of course he disavows any such label. No politician who hoped to be elected would acknowledge that he/she fell within that category of political philosophy, but that doesn’t negate the record. Show me where I’m wrong in coming to this conclusion, based on the evidence of his record of associations.


  40. Randy Wills says:

    Oh nuts, I DID leave out one important category of close and influential friends and associates of Obama in the list above; “racist”. Sorry.


  41. John Buyon says:

    of course I am being made fun of because I am a Canadian, hey dipshit I have dual citizenship.
    Communism sucks? your name is ridiculous in itself who here is a communist? and who here advocates the government owning all economy?
    Venezuela? do you know Chavez was elected? several times?
    do you know that even though he takes the money of the rich through ridiculously high taxes he actually spends it on mass literacy programs that benefit the poor and middle classes. did you know that the he DOESN’T kill the opposition? do you know that the rich people own all of the media in Venezuela outside of 1 channel? do you know that the rich people funded a coup against him, using their media to stir hate against him, but failed because there was massive support for Chavez and rioting in the streets forced the rich people and their lackeys to back down?

    I know you aren’t into fancy elitist things like reading but look it up

    @ Randy Glenn Beck is a confused little man who doesnt understand the difference between
    1. Conservatives
    4.Social Democrats
    links to prove it
    please watch the whole thing

    Glen Becks antics and ridiculous conclusions ======

    P.S. if you care so much about associations I will give you one
    about Bush and his grandpappy

    does that mean Bush is a Nazi?
    No of course not!

    Obama’s associates might have been socialists or communists or Muslims but that doesn’t mean he is one
    by the way are you aware that Obama was raised by his grandparents? not those people you listed above

    Take the clue right wingers
    America elected a 47 year old Black man with a middle name Hussein to the presidency by a wide margin, Republicans and their ideology are irrelevant !

  42. Randy Wills says:

    John Buyon says; “Take the clue right wingers America elected a 47 year old Black man with a middle name Hussein to the presidency by a wide margin, Republicans and their ideology are irrelevant!” (sic).

    What worries me, John, is the possibility that we might actually have a president who shares your worldview, and, like you, is incapable of sound reasoning and honest debate.

    But be careful, John. There are other elections coming up and you may well be on the losing side, or shall we say “irrelevant” – for a long, long, time. The American spirit is not dead yet and the sleeping giant of freedom has been woken up. I and tens of millions of other like-minded citizens are willing to pay any price to regain control of the political life-blood of our country and return it to sane government policies based on the Constitution and Judeo/Christian principles. Persons such as you will make it as difficult as you can, but, God willing, we will prevail.

    In the meantime, why don’t you just take your trash talk and hang out with the other “unreasoning animals” (no name calling there. That is from Scripture describing those who are unwilling to recognize the truth) rather than fouling the air here. You bring absolutely nothing to the table of ideas that is worth considering because you have no ideas that are your own. You simply parrot and refer to other sources which happen to fit your worldview.


    P.S. Yeah, I know that Obama was “brought up”, to use the term loosely, by his grandparents. Didn’t Obama himself say that it was his grandfather who linked him up with the “poet, Frank” who, it turns out, was a Communist and Black racist? Not exactly stellar traditional-values Americans, by any standard, wouldn’t you say?

  43. John Buyon says:

    @ Randy
    how am I “incapable of sound reasoning and honest debate”

    “What worries me, John, is the possibility that we might actually have a president who shares your worldview”

    what exactly is my worldview? could you explain what you believe my world view is?

    “There are other elections coming up and you may well be on the losing side”

    that’s certainly possible but I doubt that democrats would lose majorities in either House, certainly no one would vote for fox funded neo-confederate buffoons put up by the republicans.
    where are the Eisenhower republicans? some reasonable opposition party is what is needed not this tardfest called the tea parties

    what exactly are Judeo/christian values?

    sorry that it seems like I am asking so many questions I just want to know how the Right wingers think ( if at all) :)

  44. Oh Canidump says:

    Randy v John
    advantage Randy

    “tardfest called the tea parties”

    probably what this progressive from Canada would have said about the original 13 colonies as well

  45. Randy Wills says:

    Moving on, John. So should you.

    Oh, as for Judeo/Christian values, they’re spelled out pretty clearly in the Scriptures and the words of the Founders. Try reading them as a self-improvement exercise.


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